existed, if you said, “I’m going to make a phone that you can take outside,” they’d be like, “That’s insane. That doesn’t make any sense.”

MP: Leave it inside, where it belongs.

CD: Exactly. The point is, people who have those ideas are insane until they work, and then they’re geniuses, because we’re so preoccupied with not failing. But you can’t innovate or create meaningful art without failing over and over.

MP: When I was 22, I became obsessed with this idea that all I need to do is believe that I have something to contribute, that I’m a worthwhile voice in the conversation. Once I believe that, I can figure out how to cultivate that, craft-wise.

The first thing is a self-confidence thing. It’s semi-delusional, but necessary for any kind of risk. I’m in a lecture hall with a thousand kids, and I’m the only one who wants to say this, and that’s why you raise your hand.

The second part is to put your nose to the grindstone and figure out, how can I cultivate what I now have decided I have to say? To me, that’s the only way to do it.