AR: It seems like a lot of people get stuck on the question of whether or not it’s real, without thinking about what that even means. Why is it so important that reality TV be defined as real or not real?

KD: That’s a really weird question when you start to think about it. Real. It’s like when you say the word spoon over and over again. And that’s what reality TV does — it raises these existential questions that make people uncomfortable — what is real? What does that mean? It’s not that the shows are necessarily fake, it’s just they're reflecting our culture right now. That’s frustrating, that’s confusing, people don’t like it, but that’s reality.

AR: It doesn’t seem like the recent conversations in fiction about likeability and female characters have progressed to reality TV, where there are loads of unlikeable and complicated women. Why do you think that might be?

KD: I wonder if that approach to female characters in fiction — wanting them to be likeable — is the flip side of the same coin where you can mock these women on reality shows for being stupid or trashy. It’s the whole virgin/whore dichotomy — you want the virgins in your books and the whores on your TV. I definitely view the women of reality TV compassionately. In the